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Author Topic: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position  (Read 2220 times)

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pertonpc

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Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« on: January 30, 2012, 05:09:26 PM »

Hi Guys,
Putting my bike back together after a winter freshen up. Carbs going back soon - I never knew where the one smaller frame hose/ cable clip went. It looks like the two clutch cable clips but smaller.
Someone on Uk site found a picture of it in a kawa service manual -  on the frame down tube - holding the left carb air vent hose in place between airbox and side panel.
Do we agree that is the correct place and use for it??
Also if the two carb air vent hoses are similar lengths why does only the left side need a clip?? (only one listed and kawa manual only says to clamp the left side)
My bike is a 1978 machine with VM24SS carbs and standard air box if that helps anyone decide.

Thanks from Mark
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650ed

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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2012, 05:22:13 PM »

Here's how my carb vents were routed when I bought the bike new.  They run from the carbs under the air filter baffle plate (which is shaped on the bottom edges to hold them in place) then drop down into the air filter tube so any fumes are sucked into carbs.  Other folks have seen different methods, but this is how mine was setup on day one.  There were no clamps involved on mine.  Ed
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 05:23:48 PM by 650ed »
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rstnick

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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2012, 06:24:31 PM »

My '78 C has only one clip too, on the left side.
I have not had my bike since new though, so who knows what any previous owner did.
On the right side I use a zip tie.
The clamp on the left is similar to the clutch cable clamps, except the loop to hold the vent tube is near to one end of the clamp, unlike the clutch cable clamps that have the loop centered.
As long as the vent hose is not plugged/blocked, all should be fine.
Ed's vent routing to the air box seems to make sence.
Wonder if '78 or later original owners can confirm.




« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 09:33:06 AM by rstnick »
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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2012, 07:31:44 PM »

This subject has come up before so I thought I would take a look to see what I could find.  In my original parts catalogs for the B1, C1, and C2 the carb vent clamp is not pictured or listed.  The latest of these catalogs was printed Sept. 30, 1977 which was near the beginning of the 1978 model production run.  The Kawasaki.com drawings for the KZ650 VM carb assembly do show the clamp.  If you look at the KZ650-H1 Carb Assembly drawing the clamp is listed as Active part #92037-1092 CLAMP, AIR VENT HOSE.  Oddly enough, they only list 1 clamp even though there are 2 vent tubes, and naturally they don't show where it goes.  So it would appear that sometime after Sept. 1977 Kawasaki added the clamp.  Of course, Kawasaki.com shows it for the older models as well, but that site is famous for being generic on many items.   The part number listed is different than that of the clutch cable clamps even though it looks very similar.  Ed
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gd4now

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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2012, 08:33:49 PM »

Ed, since this topic came up awhile back, I have been trying to remember just where the vent hoses on my B1 were when I got it.  But it has been so long since I took the air box off that I just no longer have any idea. I do thank you for the research.
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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 09:17:38 AM »

Mine (both sides) go up and over air box like rstnick's but with no clamps. I've never seen a set up like that 650ed. I wonder if someone at the dealership screwed up?  ;)
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650ed

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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 10:08:33 AM »

Mine (both sides) go up and over air box like rstnick's but with no clamps. I've never seen a set up like that 650ed. I wonder if someone at the dealership screwed up?  ;)


I don't think the dealership ever touched the vent lines.  The dealership would have followed the KZ650 Assembly & Preparation Manual (which I have) in setting up the bike.  The manual shows how to attach the front wheel, handlebars, meters, lights, seat, fenders & tail, etc. as these parts are packed in the crate but not installed at the factory.  However, the engine, carbs, vent tubes, airbox & baffle plate, fuel tank, etc. are installed by the factory before the bike is crated and need no setup by the dealership.  The dealership certainly wasn't going to spend time fiddling with parts they didn't need to touch. Additionally, it makes sense that Kawasaki originally planned to use the baffle plate to secure the tubes; otherwise they would not have molded the exact shape necessary to secure the tubes into the corners of the plate.  Perhaps Kawasaki made the change to simplify the production line.  During production the airbox would be installed in the frame before the engine (with carbs already attached); there's no other way to get the airbox into the frame.  Possibly, when the airbox was installed they also installed the baffle plate.  If that was the case, it would have slowed things down a little to install the tubes under the baffle plate once the engine & carbs were installed, so maybe that's why Kawasaki started using the clamp.  What I don't understand is why they would use a clamp for only one tube.  How did they deal with securing the second vent tube?  Another possibility; my bike was made in Japan, but I understand some were marked made in USA.  Could they have been setup differently at 2 different factories?  Ed
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 10:10:07 AM by 650ed »
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martin-csr

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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 12:32:09 PM »

Interesting about the baffle plate.... I've never seen that before.  The airbox diagrams show the baffle plate for all of the 650s up to & including the 1980 E & F models; the carb diagrams also show the vent hose clamp.  My 81 650 doesn't have the baffle, but it does have the clamp on the left side.

My guess as to why one side would have it is that someone is more likely to be fiddling with the stuff behind the left side cover, hence the clamp to keep the tubing in place.... just a guess.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 02:03:51 PM by martin-csr »
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pertonpc

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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2012, 03:50:09 PM »

Hi Guys
Did a bit of digging in the UK on this one. Spoke to a trained kawasaki technician who went on the original KZ650 training program over here.
His response was -

Correct Routing is as per RSTNick's photo i.e. not through the baffle plate - that should be the wiring loom passing on each side. Carb air vent hose should go across from carbs and then down between airbox and side panel. Only the left one is attached with the clip shown.

Reason for only one clip this was explained by the kawasaki trainer as to prevent the hose from fouling the drive chain/ transmission if it were to come loose and seperate from the carbs

Hose Dimensions are listed on www.cmsnl.com parts fiche for the carb assy. as 5x8x250mm - hose on both sides is the same dimension and I think part number is 92059-1045

He showed me a picture from the 1981 650 factory service manual which clearly shows this pipe route and states the clip is to be fitted on left only. Will try and get the pic on here soon.

Cheers from Mark
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650ed

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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2012, 05:13:47 PM »

All I can say is he must have been late for the party.  The early bikes did not have the clamp and the early parts catalogs do not list the clamp.  See the top pic - that is from the Kawasaki Parts Catalogs up though September 1977; the lower pic is from the later catalogs.  In the later drawing notice item #44 in upper left corner.  Ed
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 05:19:12 PM by 650ed »
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martin-csr

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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 09:17:35 AM »

...

Correct Routing is as per RSTNick's photo i.e. not through the baffle plate - that should be the wiring loom passing on each side. Carb air vent hose should go across from carbs and then down between airbox and side panel. Only the left one is attached with the clip shown.

Reason for only one clip this was explained by the kawasaki trainer as to prevent the hose from fouling the drive chain/ transmission if it were to come loose and seperate from the carbs.
...

650ed's photo above shows the vent hoses routed at the baffle & with the wire looms off to the sides.  
Routing the vents to the airbox seems like a good idea from an EPA perspective.

I like the drive chain reasoning, but I also like mine too.... having one less thing to mess with when dealing w an electrical problem.  :)
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pertonpc

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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 03:58:30 PM »

Thanks 650ed
It's interesting you say this clamp was not used on early models - mine came with a B2 and yet according to kawasaki.com the part no. is only used for....
Model (3):     
 KZ650-E1 (LTD) (1980) 
 KZ650-F1 (1980) 
 KZ650-H1 (CSR) (1981)

which seems to support your idea. Wonder what changed on those models or was the clamp introduced as a service bulletin??

Do we have a list of the KZ650 service bulletins on here anywhere???

Think I will use mine as shown in the manual this time rather than leave it off as before - cos my breather pipes were going up past the baffle plates in Z1 style but I am gonna get new ones and route them as per the image above with the clamp fitted.

Will try and get the Kawa manual pic on here tomorrow for reference.
Cheers from Mark 
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H2RICK

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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 10:22:16 PM »

My C2 has the same setup as Rob's (rstnick) has with the single clamp on the left.....and it hasn't been messed with, either. Soooooo.....probably with the beginning of 1978 production the change was made from Ed's (and all 1977) bikes.

Quote
Spoke to a trained kawasaki technician who went on the original KZ650 training program over here

Interesting that the factory was concerned with the tube possibly fouling the chain and sprocket. Thanks for that piece of Kwak trivia, Mark.
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pertonpc

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Re: Carb Air Vent Hoses - Routing & Clamp Position
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2012, 05:21:11 AM »

Ok Guys,
As promised here is the "definitive" image and instruction from Kawasaki as to where and how this little clamp should be fitted - and where the carb air vent pipe should be routed.
**note that it comes from a 1981 KZ650 manual and my 1978 version makes no mention of the clamp**



If you have the clip then this is how to deploy it - you will need 25cm long carb air vent tubes to get the routing to look right as per the factory manual.
Best wishes from Mark
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