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Author Topic: Electronic ignition not firing one coil....  (Read 1260 times)

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Qdude

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Electronic ignition not firing one coil....
« on: June 21, 2011, 01:35:18 AM »




I saw the post on testing the "igniter" but I have some confusion as to what that is. I imagine that it is the box supplied with an aftermarket ignition that attaches to the frame and is wired between the coils and the electronic points plate.

The issue;

I have not ridden this bike since I decided to coat the tank and flush the carbs & fuel system for the rust particles. It has been at least 6 months garaged.

I got it put together and it was running rough.

Dug into it today and discovered I have lost spark to plugs 1 & 4.

The coil has 12 volts to the red/yellow.

There is no visible damage to the leads coming from the electronic points plate to the "box thing" (igniter?).
 
The dead coil sparks both plugs when I turn the key off. Now that I think of it I should have switched the green & black wires at the coil to assure that the 2 & 3 cylinder igniter wire would also operate the 1 & 4 coil, thusly determining that it is not a coil malfunction.

Do these ignition units go bad often?
This bike has had this ignition for a long time, I could check the records, but I would guess off hand it has been decades.
Could someone clarify which parts are which so I may go back to the igniter post and do the tests please?

Cheers.
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1977 C1 Green/Black
1977 C1 Blue/Bare Metal
Metro Scooter
"You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad."

Qdude

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Re: Electronic ignition not firing one coil....
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2011, 07:54:59 PM »




Bike shops here say they can get me one for about $150.oo and a couple of weeks. Online Z1 has them for $328

Dyna Ignition Z1E

I belive I only need an ignitor, but I am not sure. I will go fiddle with it now. :iconhelp:

I will check some resistances and compare them with the chart. I hope it makes sense. Perhaps I will get lucky and find a broken wire. 
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1977 C1 Green/Black
1977 C1 Blue/Bare Metal
Metro Scooter
"You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad."

Qdude

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Re: Electronic ignition not firing one coil....
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2011, 08:02:30 PM »




Ebay Dyna Ignition

Is this what I need?
Does this come with the igniter?
Can I get away with buying less, like just an igniter?   :iconhelp:
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1977 C1 Green/Black
1977 C1 Blue/Bare Metal
Metro Scooter
"You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad."

rstnick

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Re: Electronic ignition not firing one coil....
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 08:39:20 PM »

Which Ignition do you have at the moment?
Points, a Kawi elec, Dyna or other?
The Kawi ignitions use an IC Igniter, the Dyna S' is built in, it does not have a separate box. The Dyna 3000 does have an Igniter box. Points, no Igniter.

Yeah, the above ebay Dyna S is would set you up, if you needed it.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 08:41:17 PM by rstnick »
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KZ650.info home page with tech tips, manual downloads, how tos, etc: http://kz650.info/

'77 C1 project - newest
'78 C2  Candy Apple Blue, 113,000 kms, Rickman fairing, VF500 chin scoop, Giuliari style seat, Koni shocks, braced stock swingarm, Progressive fork springs, ATK fork brace, 18" Z1R front wheel, GPz750 front fender, SS brake lines, '04 GSXR600 rear sets, Kerker exhaust, K&N filter in air box, ported, 1st over bore, Kawi electronic ignition, HID headlight, bought in '84.
'78 C2 project 6 #s off other C2
'79 C3 frame with title & bits, was my brother's.
'80 F1: trees, exhaust and other bits for spare.

Qdude

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Re: Electronic ignition not firing one coil....
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 09:18:22 PM »



DYNA III Electronic Ignition

It has the points plate, and a separate module with these leads;
BLACK, RED; black, green; black, white; red.

There was one on both my KZ's when I bought them, and I had to replace one when I took the right side off of my green bike's engine.

New Discovery. I started switching 1 & 4, and 2 & 3's wiring to isolate what is not acting predictably.

Both coils sparked seperately when I hooked up 2 & 3's signal wire to each coil. So the coils, cables, wires, grounds, power & plugs are fine.

Dug out the wiring from the points plate to the module and switched the signal wires.

Red = power, Black = 1 & 4's spark signal, White = 2 & 3's spark signal, Green is for the oil pressure.

I switched the black & white wires, black to white & vise versa.
1 & 4 fired on 2 & 3's timing. The white wire from the points plate produces spark for either side through the module. Ergo, the module is good. I have it narrowed down to the points plate failing on the black wire.

Now, is there any way to repair the points plate? I am going to go and remove it now. I will of course mark the position carefully and check for obvious damage.

Wish me luck.










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1977 C1 Blue/Bare Metal
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"You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad."

Qdude

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Re: Electronic ignition not firing one coil....
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 05:15:05 AM »



I found no difference between the two sides of the plate. they were identical in all measurements with the ohm meter.

Then Nickel Poker Tuesday interrupted my work. I came out ahead, again. Gimme the Nickels. Boy was I beered up. My friends Girl can chug beer quickly (3 seconds), but I edged her out by at least a half second. Thank you Kokanee. Next week is Persian BBQ (thank you Bijan), I will supply the Margaritas. You are all invited. Especially you Gd4now in Seattle, my treat. Then I will take more Nickels.  :iconraspberry: :hello: :iconcrazy:

I hope that upon re-installation the unit will once again transmit the poo again. Until then, I will consider stealing the plate from my other bike that is awaiting Australian clutch rubbers. Juheez I wanna ride again... :dance:

Happy Summer Solstice all. May we commence now the shorter days towards earth winter sleep in harmony and balance without vomiting. May I remember yesterday tomorrow. Call your Mother....   :-&
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 05:19:24 AM by Qdude »
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1977 C1 Green/Black
1977 C1 Blue/Bare Metal
Metro Scooter
"You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad."

Qdude

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Re: Electronic ignition not firing one coil....
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 07:23:59 PM »




I am going to mount the plate and see if there is signal that I may measure.
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1977 C1 Green/Black
1977 C1 Blue/Bare Metal
Metro Scooter
"You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad."

Qdude

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Re: Electronic ignition not firing one coil....
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2011, 06:42:32 PM »




Ronery, Yep. A rittle ronery..    :((
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1977 C1 Green/Black
1977 C1 Blue/Bare Metal
Metro Scooter
"You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad."

Qdude

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Re: Electronic ignition not firing one coil....
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2011, 06:54:40 PM »




Got it to work...

Now back to messing with the carbs...
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1977 C1 Green/Black
1977 C1 Blue/Bare Metal
Metro Scooter
"You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad."
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